Todd and Tyler Unauthorized Forums

MMM · 02-15-2006

To discharge a member, the military must find that at least one of the following instances of “homosexual conduct” is supported by the evidence:

“The member has engaged in, attempted to engage in, or solicited another to engage in a homosexual act or acts…;”

“The member has made a statement that he or she is homosexual or bisexual, or words to that effect, unless there is a further approved finding that the member has demonstrated that he or she is not a person who engages in, attempts to engage in, has a propensity to engage in, or intends to engage in homosexual acts…;”

“The member has married or attempted to marry a person known to be of the same biological sex….”

If homosexual acts are the basis for separation, the member will be separated unless the member argues, and the discharge authority (or an administrative board, if demanded) concurs, that:

“Such acts are a departure from the member’s usual and customary behavior;”

“Such acts under all the circumstances are unlikely to recur;”

“Such acts were not accomplished by use of force, coercion, or intimidation;”

“Under the particular circumstances of the case, the member’s continued presence in the Armed Forces is consistent with the interest of the Armed Forces in proper discipline, good order and morale;” and,

“The member does not have a propensity or intent to engage in homosexual acts….”

If the member wishes to remain in the military, he or she has the burden to prove all five items to the military’s satisfaction.

Military regulations do not preclude trial by court-martial. Members found to have attempted, engaged in, or solicited, homosexual acts could be charged under the following Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) articles:

Article 125, (10 USC §925) which outlaws sodomy;

Article 133, (10 USC §933) which criminalizes “conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman;”

Article 134, (10 USC §934) which criminalizes “all conduct of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces” and includes specific provisions for “indecent acts;” and,

Article 80, (10 USC §880) which criminalizes attempting any act defined as an offense under the UCMJ.

Service members who are suspected of being lesbian or gay may face harassment from their commands and fellow service members. It can take the form of rude jokes and name calling, increased scrutiny of the member’s performance or conduct (such as disciplinary action for minor infractions that the command tolerates from other members), orders to perform undesirable duties, death threats, and physical assaults by one or more people.

In most cases in which the sole basis for discharge is homosexual conduct, even those involving homosexual acts, the characterization of service should be Honorable, General (under Honorable Conditions), or an Entry Level Separation. If a member is discharged on the basis of homosexual conduct, that reason will be noted on the discharge document and that information may stigmatize the veteran (and possibly limit employment opportunities) in the future.

josh · 02-15-2006

i like to discharge my member.

**mike** · 02-15-2006

Haven't seen those rules in a while.

Dave · 02-15-2006

Hey MMM, do you know where those rules come from?

MMM · 02-15-2006

http://www.objector.org/helpingout/H...al_Conduct.pdf

But I think Mike mentioned that theses are actual rules..

**mike** · 02-15-2006

Unfortunately M,they are.

Dave · 02-15-2006

I can believe the worry worts put them together, I was just curious what official sounding military document they came from.

"Any of you homos ... touch my stuff ... and I'll killya!"

2ox · 02-15-2006

lighten up francis!!

**mike** · 02-15-2006

Nice "Stripes" references.

KUfan_Donnie · 02-15-2006

Don't ever call me Francis!

(P.S. Didn't he prefer the moniker "Psycho"--haven't seen that movie for quite some time)

shutterbug · 02-15-2006

troubling

2ox · 02-15-2006

whats troubling is when uncle Hulka sees how far he shove his big toe up all your asses!

**mike** · 02-15-2006

Hence why I did not join the Army!

Sweet William · 02-15-2006

The rules acutally come from the Uniform code of Military Justice . .AKA UCMJ. They were amended back in the late 80's about the time of the big AIDS deal. Being a retired "Sarge" . . . I've been on the investigating end of this type of deal. It's VERY difficult to PROVE. You basically have to catch the person in the act(s). I sat on a Court Martial in Germany in 1992. The person clearly played the part of being homosexual, he denied being "Gay". There were seval statements againts him, BUT NONE of these statements ever identified him as committing or found in the act of. We . . . the jury were not convienced BY THE EVIDENCE presented. After a long trial, he was found not guilty, any and all references were removed from his records. A short time after this, he was transfered to another base.

Do I agree or disagree . . . . I believe that a persons personal life should not interfere in the performance of ones duties and they should not push thier belifes onto another. Same as a "Bible Thummper" . . . Keep your belifes to yourself . . .unless I ask you to explaine. The above mentioned person was considered a "Top Notch" NCO, several medals and achievments, and had recently won the "NCO of the Year" for USAFE . . United States Air Forces Europe . . . . in his career field.

2ox · 02-15-2006

Amen Billy!!

I didn't know you were NCO of the Year.

**mike** · 02-15-2006

Thanks William for breaking it down more.I hope this makes people realize,like I said earlier,these rules are there.Right,or wrong?That is another debate. I just feel the same as I did when I was in the air during the first Gulf War..........If the soldier,airman,seaman, or marine is watching us from getting blown out of the sky,they are doing their job.I have no problem what their sexual preference is,race,religion,or otherwise.

Ok,off my soapbox.

Sweet William · 02-15-2006

2ox . . . Your a funny . . funny . . . ..FUNNY boy

2ox · 02-15-2006

thanx sarge!!

guidothekillerpimp · 02-15-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike

Thanks William for breaking it down more.I hope this makes people realize,like I said earlier,these rules are there.Right,or wrong?That is another debate. I just feel the same as I did when I was in the air during the first Gulf War..........If the soldier,airman,seaman, or marine is watching us from getting blown out of the sky,they are doing their job.I have no problem what their sexual preference is,race,religion,or otherwise.

Ok,off my soapbox.

I agree,but for shitbags who try to claim there're gay just to get out of the military,that's pretty weak.If you sign up be a man and do your time like the rest of us. Go Navy!

**mike** · 02-15-2006

Yes,it is the pussy way out.....Go Air Force!!!

Sweet William · 02-15-2006

However comma, they need to be careful when making the claim they are gay, they could become someones little "Bitach" in Leaven Worth (sp?). They could be charged with several different things like, false enlistment, breech of contract, and lets not forget the "OATH" of enlistment.

. . . . My sons going to the US Naval Academy . . . and someday will fly really cool jets . . . . so go . . . . . Go US Navy Force . . . .gotta support him, but can't forget my roots

**mike** · 02-15-2006

I wish him the best. I flew on AWACS.

Dave · 02-15-2006

I think part of the problem may be that A LOT of young men and women entering the armed forces are pretty green and/or ignorant to homosexuality and tolerance, I know I was.

Note: I'm talking out of my ass because I never served in any way, shape, or form, but have had family and friends try to "be all that they can be".

I think that part of the rules are meant for the conservatives that don't want to think about any man love in the fox hole, but part of it also is that the forces don't want red neck Johnny thinking his army buddy might be a "pole smoker" and decide to slit his throat in the middle of the night.

Course, maybe I've just been drinking'

guidothekillerpimp · 02-15-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweet William

However comma, they need to be careful when making the claim they are gay, they could become someones little "Bitach" in Leaven Worth (sp?). They could be charged with several different things like, false enlistment, breech of contract, and lets not forget the "OATH" of enlistment.

. . . . My sons going to the US Naval Academy . . . and someday will fly really cool jets . . . . so go . . . . . Go US Navy Force . . . .gotta support him, but can't forget my roots

Yeah but they rarely charge anyone with fraudulent enlistment or anything like that anymore.It's just easier to kick them out and be done with them.They really don't even give people dishonorable discharges anymore.It's usually either a less than honorable or a general these days.Lucky bastards

Dave · 02-15-2006

Quote:

My sons going to the US Naval Academy . . . and someday will fly really cool jets .

"I'm going to join the Navy and fly jets just like Tom Cruise [in Top Gun].... and then you end up scraping barnacles off the side of a aircraft carrier and you say 'Hey, you don't look like Kelly McGillis... you look like MAUDE!'"

02-15-2006	#1
MMM Enjoy In Moderation Join Date: May 2005 Location: blair Age: 36 Posts: 3,186 Throcks: 2,313.82 Thanks: 0 Thanked 202 Times in 47 Posts	Military Rules for Discharge for Gays To discharge a member, the military must find that at least one of the following instances of “homosexual conduct” is supported by the evidence: “The member has engaged in, attempted to engage in, or solicited another to engage in a homosexual act or acts…;” “The member has made a statement that he or she is homosexual or bisexual, or words to that effect, unless there is a further approved finding that the member has demonstrated that he or she is not a person who engages in, attempts to engage in, has a propensity to engage in, or intends to engage in homosexual acts…;” “The member has married or attempted to marry a person known to be of the same biological sex….” If homosexual acts are the basis for separation, the member will be separated unless the member argues, and the discharge authority (or an administrative board, if demanded) concurs, that: “Such acts are a departure from the member’s usual and customary behavior;” “Such acts under all the circumstances are unlikely to recur;” “Such acts were not accomplished by use of force, coercion, or intimidation;” “Under the particular circumstances of the case, the member’s continued presence in the Armed Forces is consistent with the interest of the Armed Forces in proper discipline, good order and morale;” and, “The member does not have a propensity or intent to engage in homosexual acts….” If the member wishes to remain in the military, he or she has the burden to prove all five items to the military’s satisfaction. Military regulations do not preclude trial by court-martial. Members found to have attempted, engaged in, or solicited, homosexual acts could be charged under the following Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) articles: Article 125, (10 USC §925) which outlaws sodomy; Article 133, (10 USC §933) which criminalizes “conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman;” Article 134, (10 USC §934) which criminalizes “all conduct of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces” and includes specific provisions for “indecent acts;” and, Article 80, (10 USC §880) which criminalizes attempting any act defined as an offense under the UCMJ. Service members who are suspected of being lesbian or gay may face harassment from their commands and fellow service members. It can take the form of rude jokes and name calling, increased scrutiny of the member’s performance or conduct (such as disciplinary action for minor infractions that the command tolerates from other members), orders to perform undesirable duties, death threats, and physical assaults by one or more people. In most cases in which the sole basis for discharge is homosexual conduct, even those involving homosexual acts, the characterization of service should be Honorable, General (under Honorable Conditions), or an Entry Level Separation. If a member is discharged on the basis of homosexual conduct, that reason will be noted on the discharge document and that information may stigmatize the veteran (and possibly limit employment opportunities) in the future. __________________ Last edited by Dave; 02-15-2006 at 08:39 AM. Reason: Just fixed the formatting in the document...

02-15-2006	#2
josh MMMMMMM......BBQ Listens: Z92 - Mornings Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: THE UNIQUE CITY OF BELLEVUE Age: 31 Posts: 2,688 Throcks: 274.34 Thanks: 2,883 Thanked 1,028 Times in 192 Posts	i like to discharge my member. __________________ THIS SPACE FOR RENT.

02-15-2006	#3
mike BOOOOOOOOOOOOBIES!!!!!!!! !!!!!!! Listens: Z92 - Mornings Join Date: May 2005 Age: 36 Posts: 15,222 Throcks: 6,971.47 Thanks: 16,062 Thanked 9,533 Times in 2,208 Posts	Haven't seen those rules in a while. __________________ If I like you, leave a message. If I don't , don't bother. If I don't know you, why the hell you calling me ??

02-15-2006	#4
Dave Wookin Pa Nub Listens: Z92 - Mornings Join Date: Jun 2004 Age: 39 Posts: 6,841 Throcks: 8,276.19 Thanks: 933 Thanked 1,752 Times in 332 Posts	Hey MMM, do you know where those rules come from? __________________ Speedway! ~ Spin-out! ~ Crypto-Logic! YetAnotherGreatBandName.com Questions, comments, concerns?

02-15-2006	#5
MMM Enjoy In Moderation Join Date: May 2005 Location: blair Age: 36 Posts: 3,186 Throcks: 2,313.82 Thanks: 0 Thanked 202 Times in 47 Posts	http://www.objector.org/helpingout/H...al_Conduct.pdf But I think Mike mentioned that theses are actual rules.. __________________

02-15-2006	#6
mike BOOOOOOOOOOOOBIES!!!!!!!! !!!!!!! Listens: Z92 - Mornings Join Date: May 2005 Age: 36 Posts: 15,222 Throcks: 6,971.47 Thanks: 16,062 Thanked 9,533 Times in 2,208 Posts	Unfortunately M,they are. __________________ If I like you, leave a message. If I don't , don't bother. If I don't know you, why the hell you calling me ??

02-15-2006	#8
2ox it makes good good sense Listens: I don't listen Join Date: May 2005 Location: on the poor side of town Age: 45 Posts: 3,645 Throcks: 1,298.05 Thanks: 11 Thanked 611 Times in 128 Posts	lighten up francis!! __________________ "I took a look inside your bedroom door...You looked so good lying on your bed...Well, I asked you if you wanted any rhythm and love...You said you wanna rock 'n' roll instead"

02-15-2006	#9
mike BOOOOOOOOOOOOBIES!!!!!!!! !!!!!!! Listens: Z92 - Mornings Join Date: May 2005 Age: 36 Posts: 15,222 Throcks: 6,971.47 Thanks: 16,062 Thanked 9,533 Times in 2,208 Posts	Nice "Stripes" references. __________________ If I like you, leave a message. If I don't , don't bother. If I don't know you, why the hell you calling me ??

02-15-2006	#10
KUfan_Donnie Recovering Gambling Addict Listens: Podcast Join Date: May 2005 Age: 21 Posts: 4,066 Throcks: 1,358.88 Thanks: 3,186 Thanked 647 Times in 132 Posts	Don't ever call me Francis! (P.S. Didn't he prefer the moniker "Psycho"--haven't seen that movie for quite some time) __________________ My liver must hate me

02-15-2006	#11
shutterbug Off The Deep End Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Middle of Nowhere Age: 32 Posts: 1,174 Throcks: 383.67 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 1 Post	troubling __________________ I've never heard you talk like that... Are we about to get it on? Because I'm as hard as a diamond in an ice storm right now.

02-15-2006	#13
mike BOOOOOOOOOOOOBIES!!!!!!!! !!!!!!! Listens: Z92 - Mornings Join Date: May 2005 Age: 36 Posts: 15,222 Throcks: 6,971.47 Thanks: 16,062 Thanked 9,533 Times in 2,208 Posts	Hence why I did not join the Army! __________________ If I like you, leave a message. If I don't , don't bother. If I don't know you, why the hell you calling me ??

02-15-2006	#14
Sweet William TnTU Senior Listens: Z92 - Mornings Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: La Vista Age: 43 Posts: 295 Throcks: 376.07 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The rules acutally come from the Uniform code of Military Justice . .AKA UCMJ. They were amended back in the late 80's about the time of the big AIDS deal. Being a retired "Sarge" . . . I've been on the investigating end of this type of deal. It's VERY difficult to PROVE. You basically have to catch the person in the act(s). I sat on a Court Martial in Germany in 1992. The person clearly played the part of being homosexual, he denied being "Gay". There were seval statements againts him, BUT NONE of these statements ever identified him as committing or found in the act of. We . . . the jury were not convienced BY THE EVIDENCE presented. After a long trial, he was found not guilty, any and all references were removed from his records. A short time after this, he was transfered to another base. Do I agree or disagree . . . . I believe that a persons personal life should not interfere in the performance of ones duties and they should not push thier belifes onto another. Same as a "Bible Thummper" . . . Keep your belifes to yourself . . .unless I ask you to explaine. The above mentioned person was considered a "Top Notch" NCO, several medals and achievments, and had recently won the "NCO of the Year" for USAFE . . United States Air Forces Europe . . . . in his career field. __________________ So . . . . There I was

02-15-2006	#18
2ox it makes good good sense Listens: I don't listen Join Date: May 2005 Location: on the poor side of town Age: 45 Posts: 3,645 Throcks: 1,298.05 Thanks: 11 Thanked 611 Times in 128 Posts	thanx sarge!! __________________ "I took a look inside your bedroom door...You looked so good lying on your bed...Well, I asked you if you wanted any rhythm and love...You said you wanna rock 'n' roll instead"

02-15-2006	#22
mike BOOOOOOOOOOOOBIES!!!!!!!! !!!!!!! Listens: Z92 - Mornings Join Date: May 2005 Age: 36 Posts: 15,222 Throcks: 6,971.47 Thanks: 16,062 Thanked 9,533 Times in 2,208 Posts	I wish him the best. I flew on AWACS. __________________ If I like you, leave a message. If I don't , don't bother. If I don't know you, why the hell you calling me ??

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode